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About Carl Gould

Carl Gould is a business growth expert, mentor and entrepreneur. He built three multi-million dollar businesses by age 40, has mentored the launch of over 5,000 businesses, and has trained and certified over 7,000 business coaches in 35 countries. Carl has written 3 best-selling books on business strategy and growth (Blueprint for Success, The 7 Stages of Small Business Success, and most recently Biz Dev Done Right). Gould regularly appeared on the home improvement reality TV show “ThisHouseToo”, and each week he co-hosts “Quit and Get Rich” on iHeart® radio. He is the MC for EO Nerve, and Facilitator of Breakthrough the Barriers and the Firewalk Experience. Carl is married with three children and is a member of EO New Jersey.

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[00:00:02] Why this is your chance it was recurring revenue radio and I've got another great interview for you today. Coral gold coral is a business coach business consultant has done a lot of work with other businesses but he's also launched three of his own businesses. He's written books. He's just an entrepreneur. Or so Karl thanks for taking the time to be with us.

[00:00:25] Richard thanks so much. Appreciate you having me on.

[00:00:28] Sure thing. Hey before we dive in and start talking about your business experience why don't you take us up from what was your first business. How did you kind of break free from the lifestyle where you got to work for somebody else all the way up to today where you're doing coaching and consulting and speaking around this idea of growing your business. Yeah.

[00:00:49] And it's you know like a lot of things maybe in my life it got started by accident and I was literally this time and I was going to school for accounting and finance down at the University of Delaware and found myself three days before the Christmas break with a severely broken leg. And I found out that I was going to have to leave school to take care of my leg and six months later after having my leg you know in a full length cast and in physical therapy you know I realized that returning back to school just wasn't going to happen for me at least right away because I was paying my own way and you know all of the all of the grants ran out the scholarships and everybody wanted their loan the student loans were paid. So since I was paying my own way I I figured I would start my first business and I started a landscaping company and out of that I agree that company for the next five years and then sold that and then went into a construction and real estate development from which I then grew until 2004 but all through the 90s I went to a personal development seminar by Tony Robbins and did some other personal development work. And I just loved the idea of coaching and you know really I got hooked and so through the 90s I did it as a Passhe a part time passion but I decided in the early 2000s I wanted to make that my business and my lifestyle. And so I launched the company I have today in 2002.

[00:02:29] Oh that's awesome. And I actually have a Tony Robbins coach right now. Oh is that right. Yeah look at it and yeah it's been awesome. They really hope you kind of stay on track and I think for people listening if you don't have a coach it's one of the best investments you can make in your business and in yourself to have somebody that's watching your goals helping you set structure goals and helping you move forward towards those goals. I think it's a great idea which is the whole purpose of having you on today. So since 2004 now the construction business 2004 was a good time to get out of that business. Sounds like.

[00:03:02] Yeah. I would love to tell you that it was total timing and then I knew where the market was headed and all that. It was mostly it was mostly the right time for me to get out. But you're right. In retrospect it turned out to be the right time to get out of that type of construction. I was doing because you know think about what I was doing then was I was buying raw land subdividing it or improving it and then building a home what you know what they call on spec meaning I was building it I was taking the risk and hoping to sell it. And then you know you would sell it but you just wouldn't do that today that the world has changed when it comes to that sort of thing. And and so yeah it was the right time to get out of that and I launched my consulting business and and not only was it a good time in the market for it but it was also the right time for me.

[00:03:54] So I can start to share what I've learned over the years and with others and all the less all the entrepreneurial lessons that I learned over the years plus all of the coaching training that I had to that point you know because I was learning all of the skills and the science behind.

[00:04:12] How does somebody take an idea and scale it. How does somebody take an idea and you know package it in such a way that it can become a subscription model or a club or some sort of recurring model.

[00:04:28] Yeah. And you know that's dead on for the audience that we're speaking to today because my audience are author speakers coaches consultants sales people that are trying to take what they know and turn it into a predictable cash flow.

[00:04:41] So this is such a great story because there are so many people on the line that have a passion and they're not working in that passion but they're they're gaining they're educating themselves in that thing whatever it is whether it's teaching people or coaching or whatever it is but they may every day they wake up and they hit the ground running trying to sell something when when you started to make that transition.

[00:05:00] Talk about if you can remember what what you had to go through to make that that transition to consciously make a decision to move from one thing to something that was better. But the part that's in the middle is is kind of challenging. Can you talk about that a little bit.

[00:05:15] Sure. Sure so in 1996 I hired a business coach for my business and I worked with them for five years in the growth of my company and I decided that I want to start a business mentor and I decided that that's what I wanted to do in my life.

[00:05:35] And you know the business I have today didn't really exist back then. And you know you just you didn't have that sort of business so the transition for me was was partially I wanted to pursue my passion but partially It was a leap of faith because the industry that we have today just simply did not exist back then. So when I told people that I was going to I was going to sell off a successful construction company so I can go into this thing that nobody knew about called coaching. They thought I was crazy you know. And and I said well you know what. For me I felt like I'd be crazy to stay in the business that I was in because it just it wasn't fulfilling. I didn't really enjoy it. And you know it was it was really hard to get up in the morning and go to work.

[00:06:25] And but the work that I do now is you know the work that I do now is you know I don't feel like I work at all. I don't feel like I exert any energy to do it because it's just I just enjoy it so much. But what what I my passion has always been from the beginning how do I help people go into coaching and can small consulting business so that it could be their primary income. And you know for coaches there was a time that we used to joke that people would have to keep a full time job in order to feed their coaching addiction you know. And and it and it was something that you know there was a time when coaches just coached other coaches and they weren't out there serving the marketplace. But I wanted to change all that. And so I I wrote a number of methodologies so that you could go out and work with small mid-market business owners and you could guide them to the growth that they wanted in their business. And it was long term it was Anable and I wrote some of the programming that you know now is very common in the marketplace that's awesome.

[00:07:39] Hey let me back up for a second. Use the term a second ago that your business the kind of business you have today didn't exist you know 10 15 years ago. That's a huge point. So describe that a little bit for the people that don't know because the world has changed radically in the last 10 years obviously. So so talk about what you what you mean when you say that business didn't exist right.

[00:08:00] So in in the early in 1991 when I first learned about coaching if you went to somebody and said hey I'm interested in being a coach they would say Wow. Awesome. What sport. You know. No no no no it's not going to be a sport. I'm going to help business people and they would say you hey you could do that you know. So there were there was this idea of coaching. There were a few people doing it but it did not have mainstream acceptance and just not a lot of people knew about it. I would do I did a few trade shows where I was exhibiting my coaching services and I literally had people come to the booth ask me what I do and when I explained it they laughed at me. So I they just literally started to laugh and say well you've got to be kidding me. You're kidding right. You know. And so. And so you know for anyone who's listening you know you know you're trying to do something that's new and pioneering. You're going to meet resistance people are going to laugh at you because they don't understand it and you know what. You know a common reaction is to laugh something like that off. But the reality is is that if you're if you're passionate about it you believe in it you know and you stick with it it will it will meet with acceptance eventually.

[00:09:22] Now what I was doing was I was creating the niche that I now occupy.

[00:09:28] And you know for decades you've heard about mentoring programs and corporate mentoring programs they've been around forever and they were you know you come into the corporate world and you're you're going to be a salesperson or you're going to be H.R. director. And so the last person that had that job would walk you through that and help you navigate that minefield. And that was a mentoring program.

[00:09:55] Well I thought wouldn't it be great if successful business people mentored other entrepreneurs. And so I created one of the early mentoring programs. I just believed in it Richard. I didn't it wasn't an industry it wasn't around at the time.

[00:10:14] And you know but I I saw something I thought would be valuable would fill a gap in the marketplace that did not exist.

[00:10:24] And so I created what was then the world's far reaching business mentoring organization. And I said let's put successful entrepreneurs with successful entrepreneurs and let's see where it takes us. And you know it's it's I just I just believe in and I hustled.

[00:10:44] And when people laughed I said it's OK to laugh but when we're done you're going to see the value in this. And I stuck with it and I kept putting my message out there. And at some point I got a critical mass and now it's so widely accepted principle.

[00:10:58] Yeah. It's so funny how I graduated from college in 1994 and the word Internet was not a word. And now you know every bit of my income comes from building digital products and selling them online. And I tell people it's funny. I was probably in this business. I think my business got to about $20000 a month before I really before in my mind I thought people are making money online. I just thought it was all you know people it was smoke and mirrors people talking about how you can make a living you work from home make make money online that kind of stuff. And some of it is. Don't get me wrong but the world has absolutely changed in the last 10 years. I mean we we do business with 2000 churches all over the world we sell digital products to churches. I actually spent. I got into that starting. It came through the gate of doing consulting around construction for churches. And unlike you I didn't get out at the best time I actually got in it. The worst time was it was the end of 2009 or 2008 beginning of 2009 and started really quickly realized that I was going to starve to death if I didn't put a plan together to be able to generate business leveraging online platform so absolutely the world has changed. Talk about a mentoring slash coaching relationship. Is there a difference between those two things. Number one and number two what does that engagement look like for you now.

[00:12:17] A great question because there's a huge difference between coaching and mentoring. And one of the things that I teach people that are looking to do this sort of work is that there's actually four opportunities in the marketplace and I call them the four disciplines of the professional practitioner and there's mentoring there's coaching there's advising and there's consulting and they are vastly different. So for example a consultant is an expert who who sees the problem diagnosing the problem and fixes the problem. So if you're an if you're a subject matter expert if you're a consultant if you're an attorney an accountant an auto mechanic you're a consult a dentist. You see the problem you fix the problem.

[00:13:02] If you're an adviser you oversee the problem meaning an adviser or somebody who's been around been around for a while has a ton of experience has failed has succeeded but they are the they're the ones with the great network and they get everything done through other people. They're kind of the air traffic control tower operator. Then there's the mentor and the mentor is the person who sees the person in the problem for the first time and they just say hey look I've navigated this mine field. Look at my steps in the sand I got to the other side do what I did and this will work for you. So a mentor is somebody who shares their industry specific knowledge and says here's what I've done. You do the same. A great example of that would be like Ryan Dyson Perry Belcher you know or Frank Kern or a lot of other info marketers that say hey here's what I'm currently doing on Facebook it's working.

[00:14:02] You may want to give it a try. They're actually mentoring you and they're just saying I've navigated the field successfully. You want to navigate it. Follow in my footsteps. OK so they share and they and they translate their industry knowledge to another person. A coach is somebody who sees through the problem and what they do is they help facilitate you to understand what the cause of the issue or the opportunity is how to work on that cause help you become more resourceful as an individual and then lay out the plan for success and then hold you accountable to that plan. So there's these four different market opportunities and your clients currently need them all. You know and if you think of it from a sequential standpoint most people start out with a coach they they then move on to a mentor.

[00:14:57] They start with a coach to get traction. Make sure that they can manage their state. You know dream big enough create a plan and move forward on the plan. That's the what. What do I do and why do I do it. And then at some point you need the how. And that's where the mentor comes in. The mentor comes in and then helps you with the House because they're they did the how. And then from there you might hire a consultant or you might partner with an adviser. So there's this progression of you know of advisory that you could work through if you're the recipient of it. There's the stage as you go through. And if you're the person providing services to the marketplace there are the there are these different market opportunities that you can offer to your clientele.

[00:15:48] That's awesome. And so what that's a huge deal now if you're if you tuned out for a second year listen and tune back in because me let me just say this above level 1 you can find coaches in a lot of different places and they're awesome and I agree with what you're saying Carl that they are great for helping you be able to change the state of mind that you're in. Help you set smart goals. Do those kind of things. But finding a mentor finding somebody that has been there that's been where you're trying to go. That's a bit more rare. Right.

[00:16:17] Absolutely yeah. We sit on a board of a global mentorship program through Entrepreneurs Organization or E-o as it's known and where whenever we have whenever we have put together a program in a certain area the main trick is getting the mentors. There's plenty of people who want to be mentored. There's plenty of mentees out there but finding the person who says you know because the person who is a mentor is somebody who's successful they're very busy you know and they have what a lot of people want which is a very successful blueprint for how they got from point A to Point B.

[00:16:56] And if you're interested in that point A or point B you're going to you're going to really you know you're you're really going to want to hear what they have to say. Right.

[00:17:11] So you know the. So

[00:17:16] that's why getting that mentor is tricky. Yeah.

[00:17:19] Unless. Focus on that relationship for a second. You've done quite a bit of that. What do you see is that when you start to mentor somebody. What do you see is the common challenge that most of us have when we engage with a mentor. What's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.

[00:17:37] So the the main thing that they need to do is they need. They have to make sure that they're ready. So you know they say that when the student is ready the teacher will appear you know. And so a mentor my experience as a mentor is very keen to work with other people and they're very keen to share their knowledge and what they do and how they do it. But they don't. Their time is their largest commodity and they're very very well aware of that.

[00:18:03] And so the so when you're working with a mentor you just you really just have to bring your energy your enthusiasm and your presence meaning you.

[00:18:16] You come prepared for every session you follow through. You take action. And as long as you're willing to do that and you're really willing to pursue what you're you're after the mentor is going to be very very keen to work with you. The biggest complaint mentors have is an ass person isn't showing up I don't know if they're serious.

[00:18:37] I'm trying to work with them but it's kind of tough. You know that's the main thing.

[00:18:41] Mentors are very open to working with people but their time is in such demand that they feel that if you know if you're going to waste their time then they're not going to be interested.

[00:18:54] Yeah. And here's what I just took from that is show up and take action. Absolutely. Those are the big. Even if it's not. And I have a couple of different business mentors. Funny enough both of these guys are younger than me which is something worth mentioning because if you're in the industry I live in which is information marketing and selling digital content I'm 46 most everybody that's doing this well is younger than me. So if you're not willing to look around for people that are younger that have that experience then you might be you might be missing out. But but the guys that I talked to they're like I don't care if you do what I say just do something you know take what I'm saying and apply it to your business and and take action. And that's I think that really for these guys most of the guys that do this that's the payment you know the real payment is doing what I ask you to do.

[00:19:41] Yeah and you know be a mentor. The reason why they're mentoring is because someone was probably very good to them. Somebody help them took them under their wing and they want to do the same. Well you remember a mentor is somebody that when somebody helped them they took it and ran with it. I mean they really applied it. And so they want to help it. It's not so much that they're a taker and they want to make sure that they have some ego around you following their their lead is that they want to be able to give.

[00:20:12] And it's hard to give somebody who's not running with the with the guidance and so they are givers. That's why they're doing it. But you have to be in a position where you are going to receive and you are going to run with it.

[00:20:25] Yeah. John Maxwell talks about when once a man truly has success he looks for significance. And I think significance for people that are mentoring comes into being able to invest in other people and have it work and not even necessarily getting credit. But also just having somebody that can kind of carry the torch in there be in some sort of legacy in that we Hey.

[00:20:46] So let's talk about this. What's the most critical skill you think business owners need today to thrive.

[00:20:53] Well the ability to sell the sell and market their business.

[00:20:59] They're you know in order to get a business up off the ground running moving and making it a you know an endeavor that other people can really enjoy the fruits of and buy your product.

[00:21:11] You have to be somebody who's not only passionate about what you do and fully bought in you have to be you have to understand that business is the relentless pursuit of the next person to serve.

[00:21:25] You're in the service business and as many people as you can serve in your life are the people that as many people as you can service in the life will be your home. The hallmark of your contribution to your community. So you know if you serve one people one person great you've done a great job with that one person to make it scalable and recurring business. You have to be on the relentless pursuit for the next person or in the next group to serve. So understand who your ideal client is understand what their needs are. Design and match your products and services to it and then relentlessly go after them and try to serve them as matter of fact I joke that I that I said that you should invade their privacy as often as possible.

[00:22:15] And some people take that the wrong way and they say wait wait a minute I don't want to be spam then. And really you know stalked by somebody and I said hold on a second. Have you ever been really passionate about a product or service and they said well yeah I have been and I said well did it bother you that that particular place communicated with you very regularly and they said no I loved it. That's the point. You find somebody who has a need that you can fill and they will be an eager consumer of your of your products and services.

[00:22:49] Yeah. When I when I started my business obviously I'm so in the past or so it's even a bit more crazy but when I was trying to build a list in my mind it was all about building the list building this building this. And the reality is it's not about building a list it's about impacting people and creating change in people and the vast majority of people in your email list. Even if you don't have one or the people that are in the world that are not going to buy your thing and they're going to be upset that you're trying to sell it then there's going to be a smaller percentage that buy it. And then there's a percentage of those people that will actually execute on what what you're doing what you're talking about. And those are the people that you're trying to serve. So when you're sending an e-mail or making a video or knocking on the door or picking up a phone that's the person you should be thinking about is the person that's going to execute not the person that's going to complain because they got another e-mail in fact. My mentality now is I want to get you on my list and then get you off as quickly as possible if you're not interested in what we're doing. And I think you do that. Yeah. I love this relentlessly pursued the next person and do that by serving the heck out of him value adding teaching them stuff giving them free value and then you know I tell people this all the time but life change doesn't happen with a free product.

[00:23:58] If you want to create live change in people charge them for what you're doing because that will send the crowd down to the people that are really willing to execute and have change created in their lives.

[00:24:09] Right and that's and that's the person that they want to bomb. That's the part that most people don't think is oh I'm not going to be too pushy or this or that. No no it's not that at all. They want to buy from you. And they they and they want to know what's next. I mean last year my son was was a senior in high school and I could not consume enough information and products around how to help your child pick the right college as a scores and you know how to and how to create that college path. But now my son is in college so I'm now not that ideal buyer right. I was a year ago and I couldn't get enough of it. But now it's good information but I'm not the one. I'm not the one that you want anymore. You know I'm just out of I'm out of that game and that's OK. But for the time that I was in that game I'm your guy and I don't want you hiding or apologizing because you've got a great product or service or Oh I don't want to bother Carl.

[00:25:13] He must be a busy guy. Yeah I'm busy trying to figure out how to get my son into a college so I want to hear. I want to hear about this stuff. I want to learn I want to consume as much as I can. So if you have somebody in your sights communicate over communicate to them until they tell you to stop doing it yeah yeah.

[00:25:32] And so probably a third of the crowd right now is going right on that's it because they're salespeople and that's what they do for a living. Two thirds of the crowd is when they hear the idea that the most important skill they need to have is is selling. It strikes fear in their heart. So you know for that crowd that sells for a living I'll just say this. I tell people this all the time. If you sell for an organization for somebody else you're doing the hardest thing has to be done in the organization. And my question would be long term Why would you do that for somebody else if you're going to do the hardest thing in a company. Your name needs to be on the door for the people that don't sell for a living what would you say to those people that think oh I don't know if I should go forward with starting a business or going out of business because that selling is just not my thing.

[00:26:17] Well anyone who says sellings not my thing and or you know I'm not that kind of sales person. I think you might be thinking about sales in the wrong way all selling is and at the end of the day is just positioning your products so other people are willing to buy and anything in life that you're passionate about. You're a salesman for so you might not consider yourself a sales person but you have a kid who's in first grade and that kid didn't get in the class that you wanted them to get in. So you went and had a meeting with the teachers and the school and you and you sold them. Well you don't call it selling you just said well I just went and told them what I was important to me. Well you sold them on the idea on whatever that idea was to get that kid into that class or on that team or whatever. We sell all day constantly and the things we're passionate about that we talk about we don't consider selling what is what it's when it's a job or it's a product we all of a sudden put these rules around it that are unfair and actually inaccurate in many ways.

[00:27:23] So selling is simply positioning your product and solving somebody else's problem. They have a problem. Your product solves the problem and people are very eager to buy. You know. I mean you give somebody 20 bucks and send them to the mall.

[00:27:40] They don't come back with 1950. They come back with a product and no cash. I mean people we are consumers by our very nature. So just position your product in such a way explain your product to them. And and as you said get paid for that product. Don't overthink the sales process because it's really not that complicated.

[00:28:05] Yeah. And I would say ignore the trolls. You know we've got to we've got 30000 people in our e-mail list so there are there are definitely people on there that are having a bad day and they just want to take a shot at you and if you're not careful you can take that with you. That being number one and number two is if you you've got to be sold in order to in order to sell. Now when you own your own business the beautiful thing about that is if you're not sold number one you can get yourself sold or number two you can change what you're selling so that you will be passionate about it and you understand that the exchange of value for money is much greater. And I think that's something that people they think they have it at one point and then they lose it and they think they can never get it back and you can whether you work for somebody else or for yourself I think you can do that. Hey let's finish up with this one of the interesting things on your bio was that was the term growth hacks. What can you give us a couple of your top growth next quarter.

[00:28:57] Oh sure. So the one of my favorites I learned is very early in my career it's actually one of the first lessons I learned when I started my landscaping company is is that unless you sell a bucket list item product or service your buyers are when they immediately think about your immediate reaction when they think they're going to engage with you. They do not go to the positives of working with you. They go to the negatives.

[00:29:26] In other words I've had the privilege of actually having a bucket list business in my construction company my construction days I built log homes which was a dream purchase for some for some people. And when it came to that you just you could not stop the purchase if you tried. They were going to buy no matter what. But you know in the other areas of my life I realized that these people would prefer to be able to get through their life without me.

[00:29:53] And if and that's OK. No. You know it's not a judgment on anybody's business. But think about it. Do you really want to go to the dentist. Do you really want to take your car in to get the brakes done. You know think about it do you really want to have to go shopping for food every week.

[00:30:09] You'd rather not. All right. So what happens is in your mind you go to the negatives or the complaints about that industry. And so what the one of the growth hacks is look at your strategic planning which by the way is probably all positive based on your unique selling proposition your features advantages benefits.

[00:30:31] You probably have all these glowing you know kumbaya amazingly positive aspects of your business that's great and your buyer is thinking about the negatives of working with you first. So here's what you do.

[00:30:47] You write down the top five complaints about what buyers would think about you working with a company like yours. Think about which ones that you could solve.

[00:30:58] And then promise to your prospects that that will never happen to you if they work with you. You know very quickly Netflix did this the blockbuster top five complaints of going to a video store. Number one I got to drive there. Number two I got to drive. I got to drive back to return it. Number three is they run out of titles. Number four is you're going to charge me penalties and interest. Number five is I can't buy it right away it can only rent it. What Netflix said is we understand. We get it. So guess what. You know those five things that you don't like about going to the video store you're not going to have to. We guarantee you'll never have to experience that with us. So if you want to keep going to the video store keep going. All we ask is you put your credit card on file and you pay for what you use and you walk back and forth to your mailbox. That sounds good to you because Netflix in the beginning was just mail order DVDs. That's all I did. Right. So they said if that's cool with you then join our you know $8 a month you know put your credit card on file subscription and you know you want to go to Blockbuster go.

[00:32:05] But think about this the the complaints about the industry are so powerful it took Netflix down it will come down. Yeah I think and think about the dollar shave club. They just took the complaints about what it is what does it like the hassle to buy a razor. And they said that never happened with us. We'll tell you what you need. We'll bring it right to your house. We know exactly what to do you come with us. All that stuff that you deal with at the pharmacy shopping mall. You're not going to deal with it. They just sold for a billion dollar valuation now and they sold to Amazon.

[00:32:39] Yeah and they that and those are two great examples of how David takes down to live in an industry not that you know that's any of our goals. But I mean the bottom line is if your business is run in 500000 or a million and a half your biggest competitor might be running 50 million And how do you take them down. And I think it's by being agile in solving solving problems at that level that are easy for you to solve because of the size your organization. But they would take you would take massive amounts of effort and listen to their customer. For them to be able to solve those problems.

[00:33:08] Right. And if you're if you're a small business you have such an advantage for that very reason you're agile you can change you can shift very very quickly. And so what you do is you simply say look here's what's bothering you guys. I guarantee it won't happen by the way if you're creating a recurring revenue model.

[00:33:27] Right now you have your regular offerings go out to the go out to the your audience is going to love this when you go out to your five complaints if you can solve one of the five that becomes your first up sell your Brawn's upswell package. If you can solve two or three of those complaints that's your silver upswell subscription package.

[00:33:49] If you could sell solve four or five of those complaints that's your gold platinum titanium model that you can create so you can create your service levels by how many of the problems or complaints can you take away from your from your your customer. That's

[00:34:13] awesome. Well hey Karl I really do appreciate you taking the time to be on. If people want to get in touch with you for coaching or consulting or mentoring. How did they do that.

[00:34:23] Reach me at Karle at Curle Gould dot com. My web site is Curle Gould dot com. C

[00:34:30] A R L G o u l d. And Richard one of our give backs to the entrepreneurial community is we do a free consultation up to two hours called the business analysis and you will leave with a four page plan for your business that includes five growth strategies and that's our way to give back to the community so if any of your any of your listeners want to take us up on it just go just go to any contact page or shoot me an email and just say hey Carl heard you on the recurring revenue podcast. Want the business analysis. Hook me up.

[00:35:05] That's awesome. Great.

[00:35:07] Well hey the links that Carl just mentioned will also be in the show notes below here as well as on the Web site. Karl thanks again for being with us and for the listeners. We look forward Hope you enjoyed this and I'll look forward to connecting with you in the next podcast.


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